Doubting Bro

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Posts by Doubting Bro

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  184

  UPDATE!: THEY ALL ADMITTED EGGING US -Elders now know, heads are rolling!!

  by Lady Liberty in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  oh.... how the saga goes on!!

  i swear we could write a novel about our life exiting the watchtower!!

  ok..many of you read what happened..our house was egged and so was my sisters car that was parked here, and "frosty" was attacked!!

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  Doubting Bro

  Its almost unbelievable that grown men would act in such a way. I agree that you really should press charges. If it was a group of teenagers who made restitution (replacing poor Frosty and washing your house, car and maybe mowing your lawn for the next year) I'd be willing to forgive and forget. However, your talking about a group of 3 men who know better. They really need to be taught a lesson.

  I think the comparisons to the KKK are a bit much. The burning crosses on lawns was a signal to the person that if they didn't move, they would be killed. And, given the KKKs history of lynching folks (at least in the South), that threat was one that could be taken seriously. I think the situation is a bit different here. Was it religiously motivated? Sure and that sort of action should not be tolerated and needs to be punished. The hate crime statues are pretty broad, but vandalism and trespassing are probably sufficient enough to make the point that this is unacceptable behavior.

  I also think the idea of going to the local papers and TV station is a good one.
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  57

  Its Time To Post!

  by lurker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello all: i have been lurking around this site for over two years.

  due to a recent post of someone claiming to be an elder (which has been removed) i have been motivated to post.

  i have been around this site for well over two years and have read most of your posts carefully.

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  Doubting Bro

  Lurker,

  Welcome to the board. I know exactly how you feel. This board has been a huge source of comfort for me, just interacting with those who have been in a similar situation. Look forward to your comments!
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  40

  hey expioneers and exelders what goes on during......

  by 5go in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  the co visit during those meetings you guys go to.

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  Doubting Bro

  My experience is that the meeting including the elders/ms was a generic outline from the Society (I posted notes on my most recent and hopefully last meeting). Usually its a lot of talk about procedural stuff and not much that would help you or anyone else from a spiritual prospective.

  The meeting with the CO & just the elders deals with the local issues. It involves the CO chewing you out for various infractions of WTS rules or procedures or a lack of production numbers (similar to a business visit from your regional VP). If there's an addition to be made to the flock book, its ususally read here and you have to write it in yourself (so the WTS can deny ever giving you that instruction). Finally, there's the all important discussion of who is being "recommended". Unless you do a lot of prep work on the front end and put the brother in question in front of the congregation a few times during the week, there is the predictable push back from the CO. He'll ask a bunch of meaningless questions and look at his publisher card. Everyone in the room has to say something nice about the brother in question. If there no objections, the CO puts his stamp of approval and on it goes.

  The total meeting is supposed to last 2 hours but I've been in some that lasted until after midnight. Then, its up early to impress the CO with Sat service.

  Overall, boring stuff with very little value and a bad way to spend a Friday night.
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  32

  The Society Isn't about Money. The Governing Body isn't the Illuminati.

  by under_believer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  no, it's not a vast conspiracy for the governing body to get rich.

  it's about power and control, but not personal power and control.

  the watchtower society is a living, nigh-sentient entity unto itself.

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  Doubting Bro

  Under_believer,

  As a whole, I agree with your statements. I don't see anyone personally getting rich off of the WTS and don't think the cash flow is as large as some people would believe. They spend a ton of money on the machine, so despite the fact they are making a killing selling off real estate holdings, they simply reinvest those monies back. Of course, none of us will know for sure since they never disclose anything resembling real financial statements.

  You point about the GB is a valid one. If they all died tomorrow, they would simply be replaced. The people in the sucession line are just as deluded as the current GB members. I really think they sincerely believe they were selected by God to do what they do. Not excusing the wacked out doctrines or their lack of humility. But, I would imagine if I thought I was hand picked by God to "lead his people", I'd probably have an issue with humility as well.

  You can't kill it and neither can anybody else. Exits from the Society are personal and individual. That's the only way it happens. If the Society dies, it will be a slow senescence, a dying much like that of old age. Many people believe this process is well on its way, and maybe that will bring you hope, if you wish for such a thing, but really that's just not comforting to me, or a hollow comfort at best.

  You & I share the same fatalistic view. I'm fully convienced that I'm going to either 1) have to live a lie for the rest of my life or 2) lose much of my family. It's a depressing reality. Coming to grips with the reality the WTS is not how they say they are seems to me to be a grieving process. Personally, I've moved through denial, anger, bargining and am now stuck in depression. I could be way off base, but it seems like your in that stage now.

  Things will get better. It will take some time, but it will happen.
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  39

  Watchtower condones murder - but make sure you disfellowship for smoking!

  by AK - Jeff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i unintentionally hijacked the wanderer's thread regarding a witness mindset - so i post this here to leave his thread on topic.. http://www.silentlambs.org/education/92_murder_letter.cfm.

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  i know that this in not news to most here - but to some newer 'faders' or 'lurkers' it might be.. jeff .

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  Doubting Bro

  I really didn't think much could stun me about the WTS anymore, yet, I had to read the letter several times before it sunk in as to what they were saying. This letter seems legit. Granted, I'm not sure of the context and would love to see the initial inqury to the service desk. However, I really can't imagine ANY context that would generate such a stupid response.

  The guy killed multiple folks and committed other crimes and the reason he can't be used in the congregation is because he's a fugitive??? What?

  I'm not sure of the legal ramifications or whether clergy are allowed to report such crimes without violating privilege, but there certainly moral ramifications of allowing such a person to run free in the congregation without at least warning members as to what the issues are. I'm sure that's the point Slientlambs is making and its a good one.
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  WTS brain drain

  by Doubting Bro in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in reading this board for awhile, i've noticed that many who post here are quite intelligent and were used to varying degrees while in the borg.

  yet, you are the folks that felt the need to leave or at least disengage.

  when you think about businesses that have been sucessful for a long period of time (not that many because its pretty tough) one thing they have in common is the ability to attract and keep top performing employees, whether they're on the front line or in management.

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  Doubting Bro

  In reading this board for awhile, I've noticed that many who post here are quite intelligent and were used to varying degrees while in the borg. Yet, you are the folks that felt the need to leave or at least disengage.

  When you think about businesses that have been sucessful for a long period of time (not that many because its pretty tough) one thing they have in common is the ability to attract and keep top performing employees, whether they're on the front line or in management. After all, for the company to continue running, someone will need to step in when the leaders retire or die. So, lower and middle management (in this case elders and COs) are the pipeline to upper management (starting with DOs and moving on up to the GB).

  It seems there is an disproportionate number of highly valued employees here who have left. What effect do you think this is having in the local congregations and on the organization overall. When will the tipping point occur when the pipeline drys up?
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  30

  The Sorrow and the Pity of the Watchtower: denial of DUE PROCESS

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  nounthe state, action, or principle of treating all persons equally in accordance with the law.

  fairness is something familiar to even the smallest child.

  being treated without bias is a hunger humanity has fought for in every society; some less successfully than in present day.. in america we are guaranteed fairness when dealing with the state or federal government due to the imbalance of relative power between the individual and the state.

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  Doubting Bro

  Terry,

  Terrific points. I believe this is why the WTS will NEVER reform or change. They've called for the end several times, yet they keep on. They've changed more doctrines that probably any other religion, yet they keep on. The doctrine of the faithful & discreet slave is an absolute stroke of genius. They can claim infallibility on one hand, yet say they are imperfect on the other hand.

  Narkissos said:

  Only massive defections would introduce effective power struggle into the system, and hence moral concern about "due process" would miraculously sprout forth.

  I totally agree. I've been thinking about this and I'm not sure what could happen to bring about these mass defections.

  Their growth rate is abysmal and they mainly baptize their own children. At that rate, they can't last more than 50 years. I believe they will start running out of money and young talent.

  Right, mcsemike. I was going to start a thread about this issue. I really think that the GB doesn't realize the people who are leaving and disengaging are the very ones they can ill afford to lose. The middle management and "star" performers. Businesses who don't recongize when this is happening and take dramatic steps will self destruct. However, the hold on the average person is so great that I think it will take at least two more generations before they really start losing numbers.
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  32

  What if you refused to be disfellowshipped?

  by Billzfan23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what if you were df'ed for apostasy - yet you continued to show up at meetings with a big smile, slapping folks on the back and shaking hands with them, raising your hand to comment on every paragraph, even being visibly annoyed when you are not called on?

  file a restraining order?

  lock the door?

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  Doubting Bro

  I just wish they would get rid of the shunning policy. It is harmful and stupid.

  Agreed but that's the hammer they use to keep people in. Drop the shunning and I'm willing to bet you'd see a huge decrease in the numbers. I'd DA tomorrow if it wasn't for the shunning policy.
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  25

  DoomsDay as near as 2007

  by TopHat in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i was shocked my sister-in-law actually believes this doomsday nonsense.. http://www.satansrapture.com/bannedbook.htm.

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  Doubting Bro

  Wow. I see the JWs aren't the only ones wacked out!!

  Seriously, if God has revealed the antichrist to this person, would you really think that He would approve of selling this information???
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  32

  What if you refused to be disfellowshipped?

  by Billzfan23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what if you were df'ed for apostasy - yet you continued to show up at meetings with a big smile, slapping folks on the back and shaking hands with them, raising your hand to comment on every paragraph, even being visibly annoyed when you are not called on?

  file a restraining order?

  lock the door?

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  Doubting Bro

  Are they really worth the time & effort? Plus, it would just reinforce the JW mindset that anyone who leaves is demonized.

  Live a happy, productive life outside the JWs. That's REALLY annoying!

  PS - At the end of the day, it is private property and while the meetings are open to the public, they have the right to "revoke your implied invitation" and ask you to leave. They could get a restraining order and enforce it.